From: "'Christopher Larson' via isar-users" <isar-users@googlegroups.com>
To: isar-users@googlegroups.com
Subject: Proposal for Adding OE/Yocto-Style Features Variables to Isar
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2024 13:27:58 -0700 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <27f2f225-d7c4-40dd-a4db-431eeb31cc52@siemens.com> (raw)
Dear Isar Users,
I would like to start a discussion about the possibility of supporting
OE/Yocto-style features variables within the Isar project. Currently,
Isar implements BASE_REPO_FEATURES and ROOTFS_FEATURES, which are quite
useful. However, I believe that adding support for DISTRO_FEATURES,
MACHINE_FEATURES, and possibly IMAGE_FEATURES would be worthwhile
additions to consider.
I want to preface this by acknowledging that my perspective is
influenced by decades of experience with OpenEmbedded (OE) and OE-based
products. I recognize that Isar has a different philosophy, favoring
more direct approaches and fewer abstractions compared to OE.
That said, I believe the value of these abstractions may justify the
added complexity. It seems that many downstreams end up reinventing
similar mechanisms for their own needs. For example, CIP adds
INSTALL_WIRELESS_TOOLS, USE_CIP_KERNEL_CONFIG, and CIP_IMAGE_OPTIONS,
the latter being a list of .inc files required by an image to allow for
metadata reuse. Our usage at Siemens includes similar reinventions as well.
Certainly, we could leverage ROOTFS_FEATURES for certain rootfs/image
capabilities beyond the existing postprocessing in Isar. Establishing a
convention for including optional rootfs/image capabilities could avoid
metadata duplication, simplify managing development vs. production
filesystems, and provide customization mechanisms for downstreams.
Regarding DISTRO_FEATURES and MACHINE_FEATURES, the Yocto documentation
covers them in general. The original intention was to allow for a
mechanism similar to Gentoo’s USE flags, coupled with OE’s three
orthogonal axes of distro, machine, and image. The intersection of these
would control the outcome, allowing any combination to be viable. This
results in machine support that is not tightly coupled to distro
capabilities or policy decisions, avoiding the pattern of each
downstream copying and modifying both distro and machine in a single
layer. This decoupling could prevent issues like machines installing
packages such as expand-on-first-boot unnecessarily.
In OE, the intersection of these features determines certain
functionalities. A common example is hardware capabilities like WiFi or
Bluetooth, where the distro expresses a desire to support certain
functionalities. Only if both the distro and machine support it will the
required packages be installed.
Details would need to be worked out, even if it is determined that this
provides more value than it adds in complexity. The core of the global
features in OE is their intersection in packagegroup-base, which
determines the default installed packages in images built from the
ground up. While this doesn’t make sense in Isar with a Debian base
image, there are still optional functionalities requiring package
installation. Often, this requires more than just a single
IMAGE_PREINSTALL line, so there’s value in having a simpler way to
express a desire to support that functionality. Isar may not need to
utilize this functionality directly, but it could be beneficial to
provide it for downstream use.
Downstreams can and do implement functionality like this if they want
to, so I understand the argument for continuing this approach. However,
I believe there is value in providing basic functions to utilize such
capabilities and documented conventions for doing so consistently.
I would love to hear what both Isar core developers and downstream
developers think about the possibility of providing a mechanism for
using variables like these. I believe that the ability to provide an
easier customization mechanism and an abstraction to better separate
concerns between the distro, machine, and images would be valuable. It
would also ease rootfs customization based on desired system features
(distro) and hardware capabilities (machine), if one uses these to
adjust ROOTFS_FEATURES.
I don’t believe the default behavior of OE’s IMAGE_FEATURES, where
package lists are defined in FEATURE_PACKAGES_, is worth including here.
It’s not difficult for developers to manually implement package grouping
using features if needed, and it’s often better to create separate
packages if multiple dependencies should be pulled in at once.
Looking forward to your thoughts and feedback.
Best regards,
--
Christopher Larson
Siemens AG
www.siemens.com
--
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next reply other threads:[~2024-09-25 20:28 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 6+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2024-09-25 20:27 'Christopher Larson' via isar-users [this message]
2024-09-26 8:52 ` 'Jan Kiszka' via isar-users
2024-10-04 17:20 ` 'Christopher Larson' via isar-users
2024-10-15 16:11 ` 'Christopher Larson' via isar-users
2024-09-26 9:12 ` Baurzhan Ismagulov
2024-09-30 10:36 ` Anton Mikanovich
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