From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-GM-THRID: 6514517411576676352 X-Received: by 10.46.62.15 with SMTP id l15mr439876lja.0.1516796109553; Wed, 24 Jan 2018 04:15:09 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: isar-users@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.25.162.67 with SMTP id l64ls1058198lfe.15.gmail; Wed, 24 Jan 2018 04:15:08 -0800 (PST) X-Google-Smtp-Source: AH8x226cfUaFaqBG7Fk7BsZwvIlac6cApxJAhbIq5J4CqIQukRhOpbup6WfSQpE33iT3+m7tx6LC X-Received: by 10.25.210.207 with SMTP id j198mr542063lfg.26.1516796108813; Wed, 24 Jan 2018 04:15:08 -0800 (PST) ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; t=1516796108; cv=none; d=google.com; s=arc-20160816; b=sdWvkVbxCyTUWmZBliS4JMFnU3HJhPHLE1ucxtwioeLxEACH9jGjLeJvf08CGb/n1u 2XORd7Bs4WlLeFbHsLruFgYGFMjy+4pH97qEndTO5Ugzo7BJHs/ZnAhmlN9uY7qF9O5r cdtClV/VpqiqDQ7ckAFDnDWRhsiPDgJqOfAirlWKHWg0AUmKD0pepWynvQZX3MnYradL pWJNtUH9M+6q6GWx7RqVF6XSbWVTzDZn9DOu6EfnTiYfJtE9LclRLLfuhqkUi3WYQW+3 cyl2eqJBvsYXiyq3oKuijy7SOTWSr0q3W2xNZn1K5566Mf+Jp5EcvQ7KQXUgp3zSylPB enwA== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=arc-20160816; h=content-transfer-encoding:content-language:in-reply-to:mime-version :user-agent:date:message-id:from:references:to:subject :arc-authentication-results; bh=rpN3CSVwKJ1N8wioAKHsU7i6YQrtDlvwrT42w/+EdO8=; b=FXM6WjuBV4cUQrOAjlC3hFrwQzTnZYuBGVl9i6YTJOFXWewamJ5Q4x580wM3kfN0c3 0LdltG3ec2KwKcQvvB6nd4iH1Z09W7seD2iv/TuYVdQ52qMbXuUfPF2kk+qvuKjOSUpw WHEGLtKQM/vrR2ChGszjx6EFuxM0RcyRDSp5hP+LEOuYTxYv9GUSbOZSHHbf5RXyapnW hsAln3EIeJwsUNwvIhG7N/2yEiRi/FMJbp9PhLzewR02dFd/p1zCv1QIDK3XrVVVzhj9 pcearCwR0lMLo6ECkhY+BYJ9BdWKGggjxSxboRxPKXWJLAiFezr7BBp5aP+Y8JpfVfNr L7KQ== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of jan.kiszka@siemens.com designates 192.35.17.28 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=jan.kiszka@siemens.com Return-Path: Received: from goliath.siemens.de (goliath.siemens.de. [192.35.17.28]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id j81si36257ljb.5.2018.01.24.04.15.08 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 24 Jan 2018 04:15:08 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of jan.kiszka@siemens.com designates 192.35.17.28 as permitted sender) client-ip=192.35.17.28; Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of jan.kiszka@siemens.com designates 192.35.17.28 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=jan.kiszka@siemens.com Received: from mail2.siemens.de (mail2.siemens.de [139.25.208.11]) by goliath.siemens.de (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id w0OCF89U004358 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 24 Jan 2018 13:15:08 +0100 Received: from md1f2u6c.ww002.siemens.net (md1q0hnc.ad001.siemens.net [139.25.68.37] (may be forged)) by mail2.siemens.de (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id w0OCF7is011101; Wed, 24 Jan 2018 13:15:07 +0100 Subject: Re: [PATCH] Factor out meta-examples To: Alexander Smirnov , isar-users References: <23ca38c7-3718-f70f-532f-697b7023d69c@siemens.com> <6780b230-1481-8767-89a4-129be64d4319@siemens.com> <9fa572d2-8a59-b3b3-ab96-451975c72235@ilbers.de> From: Jan Kiszka Message-ID: <3e2ad3a4-9631-80bd-7c75-315d628b8d5c@siemens.com> Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2018 13:15:07 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686 (x86_64); de; rv:1.8.1.12) Gecko/20080226 SUSE/2.0.0.12-1.1 Thunderbird/2.0.0.12 Mnenhy/0.7.5.666 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <9fa572d2-8a59-b3b3-ab96-451975c72235@ilbers.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-TUID: 0nHz8GrtBUZ9 On 2018-01-24 11:04, Alexander Smirnov wrote: > On 01/24/2018 10:56 AM, Jan Kiszka wrote: >> On 2018-01-24 08:52, Jan Kiszka wrote: >>> On 2018-01-24 08:49, Alexander Smirnov wrote: >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> On 01/24/2018 10:34 AM, Jan Kiszka wrote: >>>>> From: Jan Kiszka >>>>> >>>>> Move recipes that have exemplary character (currently everything under >>>>> recipes-app) into a separate layer that can easily be dropped when >>>>> building real images. This also helps to ensure that no assumptions >>>>> about customizations and core recipes sharing the same layer sneak in >>>>> again. >>>>> >>>>> The meta-isar layer is still not completely clean as we keep >>>>> bblayers.conf.sample and local.conf.sample prepared for building >>>>> example >>>>> images. >>>>> >>>> >>>> Isar core is in 'meta' layer. Current 'meta-isar' is the example >>>> itself, >>>> it's not intended to be used in real projects, it's a kind of template >>>> for your 'meta-product'. >>> >>> This is the old view, it's no longer correct. meta-isar has become >>> already a core layer that products build upon. We need to fix this now. >> >> BTW, we should eventually discuss the folding of meta and meta-isar or a >> clarification what should go where. For now, I will be add the reusable >> recipes for custom kernel builds into meta-isar, but it's not really >> intuitive yet. >> >> We definitely must stop proposing users to fork isar in order to build >> own images. That is a completely obsolete and counterproductive pattern. >> > > As I see this patch is just a small step to new direction, but I have no > idea what this direction is itself, it wasn't discussed here. > > Could you please describe the vision you assume to see finally? What is > Isar core, what is example? The direction is not really new: do not tough isar for own images, create "product" layers - simply the OE model. That's the key point of using bitbake and layers. > > BTW, below is my assumption what could be reasonable regarding Isar > future layout: > > 1. 'meta' contains: >  - Isar classes >  - buildchroot >  - caching/reproducibility core; > > 2. meta-isar contains: >  - distro: debian-wheezy, debian-jessie, debian-stretch >  - machine: qemuarm, qemuamd64, qemui386 >  - images: isar-image-base (minimal multirstap image) >  - No local.conf, bblayers.conf etc... > > 3. meta-isar-example: >  - distro: raspbian-jessie >  - machine: rpi >  - images: isar-image-example >  - apps: hello, example-raw >  - local.conf, bblayers.conf etc... I specifically like the structure or meta[-isar]-example. Still, I have problems with the separation of meta and meta-isar. Could you describe a use case where one would only pull meta? If there is one, we will also have to think about how to ensure that no dependencies from meta on meta-isar prevent this (test strategy). > > With this layout I assume that: > > 1. Debian is the reference Isar distro and it's included to Isar core by > default. > > 2. Debian will be the most popular distro for customer projects. > > 3. To create new product, the user needs to create meta-prodcut with: >  - local.conf, bblayers.conf >  - isar-image-base.bbappend with custom packages set Right. > > This layout will help to hide back-end magic like multistrap from user. > So if, for example, we will switch from multistrap to debootstrap, > 'meta-product' will work as it is. Exactly. And it avoid the trap of forking isar and then running into update/rebase problems with local changes. Jan -- Siemens AG, Corporate Technology, CT RDA IOT SES-DE Corporate Competence Center Embedded Linux