From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-GM-THRID: 6982479695616933888 X-Received: by 2002:a5d:6644:: with SMTP id f4mr13800250wrw.177.1626100522246; Mon, 12 Jul 2021 07:35:22 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: isar-users@googlegroups.com Received: by 2002:adf:a141:: with SMTP id r1ls1524884wrr.3.gmail; Mon, 12 Jul 2021 07:35:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzFyAsoZ8oHGT0WD95JoF9QShR7hR/ZR4bqmTO6SOhbvNiYrmpG5gHhygTdmn80Du4+Spy/ X-Received: by 2002:a05:6000:1141:: with SMTP id d1mr34253177wrx.396.1626100521301; Mon, 12 Jul 2021 07:35:21 -0700 (PDT) ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; t=1626100521; cv=none; d=google.com; s=arc-20160816; b=ZBVuyTZSt0OWLDBhYXl6BBbWf8pOUgfGzV/xGbLp19mkXgmzDPs6sWkZkl+4uQ8nCh grFKtag4nPgO/dy33EyueyxvVVLpksaPF5UNhUqAkLJcURlNfNLpoaXFJr2pzepRg7vo sDWRv2lFgkuaGYM/YAmM9yjRk3TSDwV5T1zRFZmHJ2TV5iz1FwPm5I0zXs/qYBkt62Al wlQI3wMJXXW0ktAwg6MDSPV0UNbuzbiYIrLpPf61AHxiRRVqWHrhh3qNvCvjaU1HQdDc +Tg472E3qAThqANWPX1Nh6Nrf4mCbBb1lDd16oLSVFOUOF/ZG+CwMXEfYv9wgt1D6Mlq w9Ww== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=arc-20160816; h=content-transfer-encoding:content-language:in-reply-to:mime-version :user-agent:date:message-id:from:references:cc:to:subject; bh=eBJOCCyK9tm0jy+e3WhgCNHpTbPl5+BWQ/o+cQtvb0o=; b=j/B5CraaOFxKCnesordA0wWghnBDkyykTrAgfDSAj8W7KWHzqpvnwsLzJuG+rT4xsP JlkrY1NywjxU12KfHoSIr6OyBquZb6aBGB9UkuIkG112Srh9k7w5mUPWRy+iYaq6WEsl vgEDR1S/7TzktepfIT+rgex+9JsjTqYkMeJQvJDAQyxqjaT4VKgp+QTmGURpcMQeEtrI UsUvSGoZKprnjJoGh2vubLx1md+c37jeM/yl5u5kO6DVmLCmoILGz14M7ptFm0UQjh+L v7ahzqs4l0Gkt/rkCMEveW8NbJdGOZhIG1jyI3U1eiJ9cjHLhx3Uzb+EfbgsQwC8Hrhu FHDQ== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of jan.kiszka@siemens.com designates 192.35.17.14 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=jan.kiszka@siemens.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE sp=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=siemens.com Return-Path: Received: from david.siemens.de (david.siemens.de. [192.35.17.14]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id o17si523452wrp.4.2021.07.12.07.35.21 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 12 Jul 2021 07:35:21 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of jan.kiszka@siemens.com designates 192.35.17.14 as permitted sender) client-ip=192.35.17.14; Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of jan.kiszka@siemens.com designates 192.35.17.14 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=jan.kiszka@siemens.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE sp=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=siemens.com Received: from mail2.sbs.de (mail2.sbs.de [192.129.41.66]) by david.siemens.de (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id 16CEZKEI004015 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 12 Jul 2021 16:35:20 +0200 Received: from [167.87.3.139] ([167.87.3.139]) by mail2.sbs.de (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id 16CEZKjx009740; Mon, 12 Jul 2021 16:35:20 +0200 Subject: Re: [RFC] using lightweight containers instead of chroot To: Cedric Hombourger , Helmut Grohne Cc: isar-users , Baurzhan Ismagulov , "MacDonald, Joe" References: <11b6ea24-b31a-a417-bcd9-0b32c5abe308@mentor.com> <009b570c-b5ba-a7ba-2db9-c3b77e14a9e3@siemens.com> From: Jan Kiszka Message-ID: <5878a53d-7bf1-17c2-2b5b-ccf11460f405@siemens.com> Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2021 16:35:20 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.11.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-TUID: oGXcxSGQrWbf On 12.07.21 14:29, Cedric Hombourger wrote: > > On 7/12/2021 1:47 PM, Jan Kiszka wrote: >> On 12.07.21 12:54, Helmut Grohne wrote: >>> Hi Jan, >>> >>> On Mon, Jul 12, 2021 at 10:25:41AM +0200, Jan Kiszka wrote: >>>> On 08.07.21 21:34, Helmut Grohne wrote: >>>>> The reason to want DPKG_ROOT is to prepare the root filesystem for >>>>> your >>>>> embedded board. If that's not what you want to do, DPKG_ROOT is not >>>>> your >>>>> tool. >>>> We want it for both the board and the build env. We have the same >>>> issues >>>> to solve there, means installing packages in unprivileged manner, >>>> either >>>> for target arch or the builder arch (cross and native builds need to be >>>> supported). So I see DPKG_ROOT as a building block for both. In >>>> addition, it would overcome qemu-user, which is speed gain. >>> No. Let us for a moment assume that DPKG_ROOT would just work for all >>> packages in Debian (and that is a far stretch really). Then you'd be >>> able to install your Build-Depends into a directory without using >>> chroot. But how do you build your package then? You need to chroot the >>> dpkg-buildpackage call. So you are back to requiring chroot, at which >>> point you can just install your whole build environment using chroot. >>> >>> DPKG_ROOT is the wrong tool for that job. The one thing that it fixes is >>> requiring qemu for the embedded filesystem image. Cross builds already >>> work entirely without qemu (including package installation). >>> >> We can't cross-build all packages, unfortunately. That's why we will >> continue to require native installations for some packages' >> buildchroots, just like we obviously do for the target rootfs. If you >> can create and also augment (install deps) those without qemu, you gain >> speed. Granted, those continue to require qemu for the actual build. >> Which brings me back to still having to add namespace support to >> binfmt_misc... > > there is that: > https://patchwork.criu.org/series/3855/ > > > I haven't checked if the author got any luck in getting his patchset > accepted > See https://lkml.org/lkml/2021/1/18/1267. Since then, it's on my long backlog, but with rather low prio unfortunately. Jan -- Siemens AG, T RDA IOT Corporate Competence Center Embedded Linux