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Mon, 19 Aug 2024 08:32:02 +0000 From: "'Heinisch, Alexander' via isar-users" To: "Niedermayr, BENEDIKT" , "isar-users@googlegroups.com" CC: "quirin.gylstorff@siemens.com" , "Kiszka, Jan" Subject: RE: [meta-isar] Proposal to improve initial device bootstrapping Thread-Topic: [meta-isar] Proposal to improve initial device bootstrapping Thread-Index: AdrXglnCFID0IKt2Qheoi3Gzli88CgHDRAsABN7VVaA= Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2024 08:32:02 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: de-AT, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: msip_labels: MSIP_Label_9d258917-277f-42cd-a3cd-14c4e9ee58bc_ActionId=453f918f-3203-454f-9b48-b6a4cefad4b7;MSIP_Label_9d258917-277f-42cd-a3cd-14c4e9ee58bc_ContentBits=0;MSIP_Label_9d258917-277f-42cd-a3cd-14c4e9ee58bc_Enabled=true;MSIP_Label_9d258917-277f-42cd-a3cd-14c4e9ee58bc_Method=Standard;MSIP_Label_9d258917-277f-42cd-a3cd-14c4e9ee58bc_Name=restricted;MSIP_Label_9d258917-277f-42cd-a3cd-14c4e9ee58bc_SetDate=2024-08-19T07:38:13Z;MSIP_Label_9d258917-277f-42cd-a3cd-14c4e9ee58bc_SiteId=38ae3bcd-9579-4fd4-adda-b42e1495d55a; 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charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: siemens.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: AM7PR10MB3320.EURPRD10.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 47bd48b0-2112-4665-a027-08dcc0296690 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 19 Aug 2024 08:32:02.6171 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 38ae3bcd-9579-4fd4-adda-b42e1495d55a X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: qqWZ+JJ+tHZUdOHPN3SaGSxBcTi1VLGB6zB2YhkiLW83t5aNoFcKOTQYnzylYELD69BD7ymuO5lnGD6IucoFRqkLj4jzw7imRaN+gJqp17E= X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: PA1PR10MB8332 X-Original-Sender: alexander.heinisch@siemens.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; dkim=pass header.i=@siemens.com header.s=selector2 header.b=qgUKMHvq; arc=pass (i=1 spf=pass spfdomain=siemens.com dkim=pass dkdomain=siemens.com dmarc=pass fromdomain=siemens.com); spf=pass (google.com: domain of alexander.heinisch@siemens.com designates 2a01:111:f400:7e1a::615 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=alexander.heinisch@siemens.com; dmarc=pass (p=REJECT sp=REJECT dis=NONE) header.from=siemens.com X-Original-From: "Heinisch, Alexander" Reply-To: "Heinisch, Alexander" Precedence: list Mailing-list: list isar-users@googlegroups.com; contact isar-users+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Spam-Checked-In-Group: isar-users@googlegroups.com X-Google-Group-Id: 914930254986 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.2 required=5.0 tests=DKIMWL_WL_MED,DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID,DKIM_VALID_AU,DKIM_VALID_EF,MAILING_LIST_MULTI, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3,RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL,RCVD_IN_PSBL,RCVD_IN_RP_CERTIFIED, RCVD_IN_RP_RNBL,RCVD_IN_RP_SAFE,SPF_PASS autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on shymkent.ilbers.de X-TUID: 6uBPInJ6DCzV > > ## Identified Problems > > > > 1. **Problem**: The installer script has to provide an unattended mode= . > > > > **Possible Solution**: Add setting for unattended mode either via > > well known config file or via kernel cmdline. > > > > 2. **Problem**: When embedding the target image into the installer > > rootfs a rebuild of the installer image is required everytime we change= the target image. > > > > **Possible Solution**: Installer image could download target image > > from http/ftp/s3 server at runtime and install it from memory. > > (Therefore, we have to ensure enough memory is provided, or probably > > support some kind of streaming functionality) > > Yes, sounds like swupdate and friends... > > Nevertheless, I find the idea of using swupdate rather than the current s= cript not that bad at all. > I has some nice side effects. For example any custom pre/post processing = could be simply done by writing scripts and add them to the swu container. = So there would be no need to customize the current update script. That deco= uples downstream customizations very nicely... Yes, this also adds the benefit of having utilities for e.g. disk-encryptio= n (reencryption or changing keys) available during updates, reducing downti= me. (Plus in addition we don't have to ship the overhead of the generated full = wic image.) Currently the installer script has some interactive mode (dialog). In the i= nitial proposal, we'd planned to support interactive mode alongside unatten= ded mode depending on config or kernel cmdline of the installer. I'm not sure how this would work with swupdate! It remains open, if the use= case for such interactive mode is strong enough to have two solutions in p= lace? (e.g. current installer + swupdate based installer) -> I would highly= prefer only having one =F0=9F=98=8A > > In conjunction with wfx [1] as update server I could imagine that very co= mplex setups were possible. > > I'm not sure wether or not isar is the right place for this feature. This= could potentially fit better into isar-cip-core which implements these typ= e common patterns?! When switching to swupdate, cip-core is probably the right place (since the= build infra is already in place). When using a custom script, isar is probably the better place, to support a= wider range of downstream projects. > > > [1] https://github.com/siemens/wfx > > Absolutely! > > > > > > 3. **Problem**: Since pxe transferrs only the kernel and the > > initramfs via TFTP (rather slow) When using pxe we have to provide the = rootfs of the installer via nfs. > > You could checkout iPXE. It uses http/https for downloading. Currently, I was going for PXE only, because of higher compatibility. In case of iPXE, I'd chainload iPXE boot rom via PXE boot. Although, ipxe compatibility is pretty widespread (https://ipxe.org/appnote= /hardware_drivers), I could not find the NIC we are currently using (Intel = I225-V 2,5 GBIT Ethernet). Maybe I will test that someday =F0=9F=98=8A > > > > > **Possible Solution**: Having an online installer downloading the > > target images from some external source, enables us to put all > > installer logic in the installers initramfs. Thus, no need for an insta= ller-rootfs. > Using an initramfs may be fine, but as soon as the installer needs intern= et you will encounter issues due to missing support of different libraries.= In other words, the more features we support the more needs to be added in= to the initramfs and installation into initramfs can be very cumbersome and= time consuming (files have to be installed directly since no package-manag= er available). Using a rootfs simplifies a lot of things! I'd also prefer using a package = manger =F0=9F=98=8A Still, when using the installer in the field (e.g. from an usb stick) havin= g all inside an initramfs (except for the signed image) could simplify inte= grity checking. For the initial implementation I'd go with the rootfs, and extend on this, = once the requirement emerges. --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= isar-users" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to isar-users+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/= isar-users/AM7PR10MB3320406577F5B58F8DEF8E53868C2%40AM7PR10MB3320.EURPRD10.= PROD.OUTLOOK.COM.