From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-GM-THRID: 7231094895937585152 X-Received: by 2002:a05:6e02:60c:b0:334:c74c:4403 with SMTP id t12-20020a056e02060c00b00334c74c4403mr5389076ils.11.1685369200500; Mon, 29 May 2023 07:06:40 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: isar-users@googlegroups.com Received: by 2002:a05:6e02:10d2:b0:333:ffff:9469 with SMTP id s18-20020a056e0210d200b00333ffff9469ls840868ilj.0.-pod-prod-08-us; Mon, 29 May 2023 07:06:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACHHUZ4/x6/ETKzIwh2CYIScXoDgv2o88Y+DUQnPWZG+AgTo/Z35pjUv5DPsbp5aQlXKZH/8IfJN X-Received: by 2002:a92:ce85:0:b0:335:908b:8f8 with SMTP id r5-20020a92ce85000000b00335908b08f8mr6171745ilo.4.1685369199714; Mon, 29 May 2023 07:06:39 -0700 (PDT) ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; t=1685369199; cv=none; d=google.com; s=arc-20160816; b=qKAMBlsKrB1WLTIR00UC5/ulNpD7vDkK8rjSaOJz2Y3hi3EwT4kwOu9nb+UfHrN7u9 ppi4d+RdJkLgNj2jxvdWZEmjBOLhE4iG47/Siz/iK7VajlEIwnPtSKMbq1Yqhj1X8KmC PQJBJ+1ME3eq2nPYeH6vDzrhjrOVuiRB36CdsEs5w1KnwdjZdwWglvGEqL/q7vQnO6Sd axp1CLjEh6+d+jYg+DSvcIbcokvzydKZIwCQgLbyJ24Huz2vTQqySOLhNcIABbeERL4j UyRex4Os/NE6tYM2ANLWmUi+5gLrtjDbC4kvcUGvDTmNpF5166TvtnYnlFT0Eu3vAiTa lVmw== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=arc-20160816; h=in-reply-to:content-disposition:mime-version:references :mail-followup-to:message-id:subject:cc:to:from:date; bh=MX/8ZDI1PDOyps/M015I9Vxfoa7wf1Y0LY5NaJ1Hys0=; b=obXhGBYLlLzvlalpeXnkakFlt0OVpa5g2pR5VXrRQmkCmB40Xv3E6JLu45zv5+S4WK snTKWm97kmerJd/VcYrAIv9uK+RNxw9qOCdFJ9Gjml8cpwo0Fz/0Ov15f6uMxIQKui77 pEX/pybUtXgaO9MxYbNhLc72DJQOVWKQqBuyEOYv+pWBAViZaW2pEoFyxBXY5+qG/OMm NyKC8ci5yaAO8P2woVkoZOZe5gv3Btuw+iGVk8qdTsIVwv4fuk7arf3tIYxXLTX5y3Nj mLfqVBb7u6AiCAQLHSqkmP/ewkYu3Vzwkf9N/HVVhnTIvjU+TNrbfKLAVaKd1tOjQ5cV wyeg== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; gmr-mx.google.com; spf=neutral (google.com: 85.214.156.166 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of ibr@radix50.net) smtp.mailfrom=ibr@radix50.net Return-Path: Received: from shymkent.ilbers.de (shymkent.ilbers.de. [85.214.156.166]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id q46-20020a027b2e000000b0040fc30ac205si6135jac.0.2023.05.29.07.06.38 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305 bits=256/256); Mon, 29 May 2023 07:06:39 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: neutral (google.com: 85.214.156.166 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of ibr@radix50.net) client-ip=85.214.156.166; Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=neutral (google.com: 85.214.156.166 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of ibr@radix50.net) smtp.mailfrom=ibr@radix50.net Received: from ilbers.de (host-80-81-17-52.static.customer.m-online.net [80.81.17.52]) (authenticated bits=0) by shymkent.ilbers.de (8.15.2/8.15.2/Debian-8+deb9u1) with ESMTPSA id 34TE6Wrm028211 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Mon, 29 May 2023 16:06:33 +0200 Date: Mon, 29 May 2023 16:06:32 +0200 From: Baurzhan Ismagulov To: isar-users@googlegroups.com Cc: Henning Schild Subject: Re: [PATCH v1 0/6] Migrate to mmdebstrap Message-ID: Mail-Followup-To: isar-users@googlegroups.com, Henning Schild References: <20230509082107.1657595-1-amikan@ilbers.de> <20230512215029.69351b38@md1za8fc.ad001.siemens.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20230512215029.69351b38@md1za8fc.ad001.siemens.net> X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on shymkent.ilbers.de X-TUID: w0LEyl8Gjszj On 2023-05-12 21:50, 'Henning Schild' via isar-users wrote: > Maybe you can add a few words on the relevance and the sustainability > of mmdebstrap and compare it to debootstrap. Is it an official debian > supported tool, where does upstream use it, do we align with debian > strategy here? > > As far as i remember we came from multistrap and eventually switches to > debootstrap. And the reasons have been around multistrap being somehow > not official or sustainable. Some points that quickly come to mind are: * mmdebstrap is part of Debian and claims e.g. the following advantages compared to debootstrap: Direct debootstrapping from multiple repos, reproducible, unprivileged operation, apt-less chroots (and more in [1]). * What we'd like to have: * Introspection ("what will be installed") before actually installing stuff, necessary for upfront base-apt and Debian dependency support in bitbake. * Unprivileged bootstrapping, for later unprivileged building in unprivileged containers. * Bootstrapping from multiple repos in one pass (installing security and custom-built packages doesn't require updating and upgrading). * Go away from shell, preferably towards Python. * Replace qemu-debootstrap which is deprecated. mmdebstrap satisfies this except that it is written in Perl. * Regarding multistrap, the author said he didn't maintain it anymore. Moving back to Bourne shell, no introspection and two-stage bootstrap + upgrade to security repo was a regression which I didn't like. Retrospectively, I think we could have maintained multistrap as well -- there are people in emdebian community who need it and we've discussed reimplementing it in Python (in the end, no changes which would require toucing multistrap have been introduced till today). Given mmdebstrap, we're postponing the reimplementation for an indefinite period of time -- the same policy as with bitbake which suits our needs as is to 80 %. 1. https://gitlab.mister-muffin.de/josch/mmdebstrap#the-sales-pitch-in-comparison-to-debootstrap With kind regards, Baurzhan