From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-GM-THRID: 6730113598409932800 X-Received: by 2002:a17:906:cf85:: with SMTP id um5mr13377642ejb.186.1567523955680; Tue, 03 Sep 2019 08:19:15 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: isar-users@googlegroups.com Received: by 2002:a50:aeb3:: with SMTP id e48ls2712931edd.14.gmail; Tue, 03 Sep 2019 08:19:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqyfKmGHx6W8vh4MJ23vZ1m6fR/SQHLDaoyoWzU5Af6klPBCFZ7ROqFcegEleIECHvtF5zCu X-Received: by 2002:a50:9734:: with SMTP id c49mr27551710edb.93.1567523955145; Tue, 03 Sep 2019 08:19:15 -0700 (PDT) ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; t=1567523955; cv=none; d=google.com; s=arc-20160816; b=vCTalS5h47uagJopMlOjAopvoU0cCq8/0OOarEWXFZl/Z7WU3DX5b33V9fZG+pxApc AxziZxw+T/BOY0lwTv3M7XOHviZgTLpjDqvJRX9K/oteT4Uo42LVILetj/e5Oimt9eEP XiDhGH1lEYJJZFTdoqD8OdOCTMm/4tTi2AwFLapBU01QzTxrCBomsNJ9fXD0Mk8mvaKL QQLlaVejRuZLgyqVfv2hmD3CYZd6d0noaxGb+lv7aTRHQkren7y7FdJSgEeWGWu1hsKq /o4uIDq72EtCLOQVpLBiDB0iR2g91f9bJFvTydHQ5DEJw3YVSd+laYtjr6UXoSK3wRV9 jIHQ== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=arc-20160816; h=content-transfer-encoding:content-language:in-reply-to:mime-version :user-agent:date:message-id:from:references:to:subject; bh=k+ybQvJrUDUD8F+ZPu3uMDZGb8VDBseWvSYnZjQHfTc=; b=lorHRUSP+bjYaBL3BqM9+2MQgDUNboPeQrcJ/tyDW3W64Uk0XnLcgPDMAyFC1o9lE+ 5xR7wx4MYaoPj0SiOShyHXZBXveIDbSCX3Eo0RsG56EFoe4wkuQdCDna4dIbw/cOw7M/ IHIJmJjZDX7DcP0epcgimluq+gKBu/G2n+eRjCX2U+8c1IMdZjp9sD2amJ7tU/5SABWX I7Jg0xoTUvC2yZjKLfK/CWw4QisMwCGQShxYOQf70xG1rYak4VYITrB4z8FvquhnfeZO NEyjv4M292myp3cvytVnNBEQw/c4VZIg5PWlNEz59ZJZeuFr5V+z3cf5KTIjR0bCz+Bg XjIQ== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of jan.kiszka@siemens.com designates 192.35.17.14 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=jan.kiszka@siemens.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE sp=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=siemens.com Return-Path: Received: from david.siemens.de (david.siemens.de. [192.35.17.14]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id q18si704144ejp.0.2019.09.03.08.19.15 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 03 Sep 2019 08:19:15 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of jan.kiszka@siemens.com designates 192.35.17.14 as permitted sender) client-ip=192.35.17.14; Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of jan.kiszka@siemens.com designates 192.35.17.14 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=jan.kiszka@siemens.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE sp=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=siemens.com Received: from mail2.sbs.de (mail2.sbs.de [192.129.41.66]) by david.siemens.de (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id x83FJE2P031745 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Tue, 3 Sep 2019 17:19:14 +0200 Received: from [139.25.68.37] (md1q0hnc.ad001.siemens.net [139.25.68.37] (may be forged)) by mail2.sbs.de (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id x83FJEQN007647 for ; Tue, 3 Sep 2019 17:19:14 +0200 Subject: Re: [RFC Kernel PATCH 1/1] builddeb: support creation of linux-perf packages To: isar-users@googlegroups.com References: <1566976653-174-1-git-send-email-Cedric_Hombourger@mentor.com> <1566976653-174-2-git-send-email-Cedric_Hombourger@mentor.com> <20190830155815.3042828c@md1za8fc.ad001.siemens.net> <4c350bba-d2c1-9689-b42f-9c18dcfb3e13@mentor.com> <20190903145932.GD6062@yssyq.m.ilbers.de> From: Jan Kiszka Message-ID: Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2019 17:19:14 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20190903145932.GD6062@yssyq.m.ilbers.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-TUID: I95khITzLxIf On 03.09.19 16:59, Baurzhan Ismagulov wrote: > Hello Cedric, > > On Tue, Sep 03, 2019 at 10:01:43AM +0200, Cedric Hombourger wrote: >> Unfortunately Ubuntu does not use the same package structure > ... >> Anything comes to mind? >> >> Should we give up the idea of using builddeb and instead use our own >> debian/{control,rules} in Isar? (Jan told me that you have started to >> discuss/consider this) > > Thanks for summarizing the differences. I'm afraid there is no silver bullet, > it will diverge. As I see it, the approach matrix is still the same: > > generic specific > > own complex simple > repetitive > > upstream complex complex > fragile fragile > > For a single downstream project, I'd choose own-specific at the cost of some > repetition. I assume it to require less effort than upstream-generic. In my > understanding, this is what Ubuntu does due to practical reasons. Unifying the > three upstreams is a noble task, but I don't see anyone feeling inclined to > solve that for the long-term. > > For Isar or a generic base layer on top of it, the effort mix will be > different. Upstream-specific doesn't make sense, and upstream-generic is > difficult due to the reasons in your mail. The alternative is copying > own-specific. Given enough permutations, this will become unmanageable at some > point (updating will be costly and error-prone). Start with own-generic via > e.g. sed config -- and you end up with your own version of deb-pkg. > So, here the question is how many variants one is going to ultimately have. > > For the generic case, I don't see approaches better than deb-pkg ATM. IMHO, it > doesn't have to be ugly. They already support e.g. rpm; do they have variants > for Fedora, SUSE, etc.? > Addressing also Ubuntu would by a nice by-catch but not a must-have. We need to get Debian right first. Yes, moving away from builddeb is seriously considered as the current model makes the kernel build also "one off" /wrt all other packages. Plus we repackage anyway because upstream is not generic enough to allow us modeling the packages in a way that makes them drop-in replacements for the Debian kernel. And having the control downstream would also make it easier to account for small differences in the various Debian flavors - if there is a user. But creating our own kernel recipe is not highest prio ATM, there is bigger fish to fry first. Jan -- Siemens AG, Corporate Technology, CT RDA IOT SES-DE Corporate Competence Center Embedded Linux